I was re-thinking our conversation. I wanted to point out examples that I think demonstrates God's divine calling being necessary for salvation and at that, the only reason we are saved.
I want to lay a few foundations;
First, a spiritual work is anything you must do, (some disagree on this point even in reformed theology) but the act of believing something does not require an act of your will, though I contend faith does. Belief is simply a rationalization of an assumed fact to a position of relative incontravertability; IE 1+1=2. It doesn't require effort to believe that, it's a fact it exists whether you believe it or not.
Second, Paul describes man as spiritually dead to God when they are born and from the point of birth until something changes that status.
Third we're born into sin, not knowing God from ourselves, Paul supports this by saying "none seek God, nor are they even able to do so."
Fourth God in his pure holiness is not beholden to us in any way, the very nature of any agreement he has with us is purely at his discretion, upheld at his discretion and even though we may make agreement with it, that[our agreement] is upheld or denied by the power of God, since absent God's desire, we could NOT be saved.
Where I think we fundamentally disagree, and from there, several bunny trails of insignificant disagreement follow, is on the question of the depravity of man. Is it total, or is it partial?
My view is that it's total. My thoughts cannot even be trusted. Even the writing of this email should be tested. It's purely the benevolence of God that allows me to survive this condition. I think you may believe there remains some good in you, or at least enough to realize that you're sinful and need God, therefore you make a confession of faith.
Children are a perfect example [realize that full grown adults most of the time are spiritual infants]. Infants have no map of right and wrong, only a pleasing of self.
You don't let infants play with sharp objects, but you do allow them to play with toys. You don't allow them to eat foods that they could choke on, but you do allow them milk. If you blow this up to an adult who is a spiritual infant, or worse, not even spiritually born yet, then you realize that this infant can no more make a choice to follow a sovereign God than it could play with a sharp object you've kept from their possession. Christ reinforces this to many of the Pharisee's, not the least of which, Nicodemus. There's nothing wrong with God choosing for you, because you aren't able to ascertain the gravity of your decisions, nor rightly decide for you lack information. And there is nothing wrong with that. You may maintain that the desire/abiltiy of choice remains and there fore so does free will. While I can't dispute that, I would say there's no point, because your will in the child's life is efficacious, and theirs is not.
As further proof, I contend that we cannot possibly understand why God wants all glory to himself, or why he's jealous, or why he wants our worship. If you encountered ANY person who said they deserved this, you would readily dismiss them, that is purely self-serving and probably wrong. We can't understand why God wants these things and that very element defeats the notion that we could rightly choose God for any purpose, UNLESS, it was his divine will for you to do so. Because we have incomplete information...how can you make a right decision with a lack of information? You can't. I won't write out the examples, but you get my drift.
Therefore, if by allowing, or if by requiring, God is complicit in our salvation, in fact, Paul calls him the author. In either case, it was his choice before it was yours, so how then can we take credit for what we did not originate in ourselves? That would be like the infant, if he could speak, after you got him dressed saying. "thank you for giving me the choice to choose these clothes." The child clearly had no choice in the matter; and that is OK.
We've been assimilated for a long time into an evangelically trained mindset that frankly ignores large portions of the Bible. I know I was.
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